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Full Version: Taylor and Live Performances in General - - Reviving the thread 9-1-08
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amyrebo Wrote:

LISA Wrote:
I say WTH to all this babble ( please nobody take this to heart ) I'm a simple kind of girl why can't he just call his buddies up say something like, guys come over to the lake for a long week-end I'd like to play.The Traveling Wilburys did it this way.........Right?????? I really think you can OVER THINK MUSIC WAY TO MUCH.I hear a lot of musicians say when asked about some of their work, that it just happened. What do I know nothing really I'm just rambling on and onGrin


ermm ermm My head hurt just trying to figure out what you guys are talking about.

But please continue...Haha


Me too!Haha
I'm not as knowledgeable about all this. I just listen to it and know what I like.

Margaux Wrote:
If you listen to TH and EW back to back, the difference between the organic "home-grown" production of the EW tracks and the over-produced TH tracks is striking. The TH album -- like most modern music -- is full of extraneous noise, and EW is not much beyond voice and instruments. With the remastering, the voice and instruments are clear. Some studio tricks such as vocal layering, used judiciously, can add interest and variety.

I've seen some articles recently on how since most people listen to music on MP3s (overly compressed) or CDs (a bit better but still not good), music production settles for the noisy crap that sounds okay in those formats. To me that's just an excuse. Most of the brilliant songs of Brian Wilson, the Beatles, Phil Spector, were primarily produced to be heard on tiny transistor radios and mono AM car radios -- yet they sounded great.


Bingo. If more musicians challenged themselves to record in a way that works on a crappy 1950 transistor radio, we'd have much, much better recorded music out there. Compression is the great satan of our time. Wink While MP3 downloads are a great way to share music without polluting the environment with packaging, you lose a lot both sound-wise and joy-wise (opening the new record, reading the liner notes, checking out the cover art) with digital recordings. I have a pretty big vinyl collection, and I still vastly prefer it to any other format.

Dad and I were listening to country in the car this evening as we went shoe shopping (we both have odd-shaped feet so we can commiserate between stores). In particular, he had some old Hank Williams playing, and I was really enjoying the low-fi recordings. I assume it was remastered for CD, but it still had that crinkly vinyl sound. Smile (P.S., I got sneakers like Taylor's. Grin )

Too tired tonight to shift this number-cruncher brain over to writing mode - - the only analytical thinking I can muster is that night owls should not have to do early morning meetings blushing - - but am dropping off some things I can still find that I've run across relating to the resurgence of interest in vinyl over the past few months.

Have fun mari.

This article in Wired last fall was the first to catch my attention.
http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music...gpost_1029

some op-ed type pieces
http://popculture.nashvillecityblogs.com/?p=142
http://www.collectingvinylrecords.com/vi...pular.html
http://classicrock.about.com/od/newrelea...yl_one.htm
even RIAA has acknowledged the rise in sales of vinyl LPs
http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/riaa...s-vin.html

And "name media" is taking a look
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...69,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/10/vinyl.r...index.html
Video of a CBS segment on vinyl's renewed popularity
http://www.cratekings.com/cbs-news-repor...esurgence/

Coin flip - - these argue that vinyl does not produce a better sound - - hey I just find 'em and read 'em . . Wink
http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-gami...lly-better
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

Reached saturation point yet ?

And just for kicks and giggles en route to the pillows - - -

Rotfl I'm so simple I thought that right there was funny.Haha

Where in hell do you find this stuff?Grin Need I tell you I skipped over the other garble.
Once upon a time, in the glory days of vinyl (and 8 tracks ) there were artists who combined great music with great production values. Some examples: Boz Scaggs, Steely Dan, Supertramp -- records that sounded technically amazing, and did not sacrifice musicianship.

I think it's no accident that Taylor admires these great 70s-80s records.

Last night I stumbled on one of my favorites from that era, love the vocals, love the harmonies, Jeff Porcaro's drums, the whole sound. Note the variety of rhythm between the verse and chorus, and that wonderful horn riff at 1:07, the beautiful keyboard and guitar interlude at about 3:00:

Just Heart Toto, had a couple of their albums and just last week ordered their Essentials cd along with Aerosmiths Greatest and Eric Claptons 461 Ocean Blvd. If my father had any clue how much this is costing his daughter to regroup all of her album collection from the days.crying Remember the wheel barrel loads being hauled down the driveway by some lucky guy,for just a lousey $5 BUCKS!mad:mad: Scared for life I tell you!Grin

Margaux Wrote:
Once upon a time, in the glory days of vinyl (and 8 tracks ) there were artists who combined great music with great production values. Some examples: Boz Scaggs, Steely Dan, Supertramp -- records that sounded technically amazing, and did not sacrifice musicianship.

I think it's no accident that Taylor admires these great 70s-80s records.


Y'know, going back to UTR and EW -- I think Taylor has the good sense God gave Phil Spector to not screw up the production of his songs. And part of that is from studying those great old records, and part of it I think is an innate sense that some people are born with. (I think I was born with it too, lol.) So I think that now that he's a "free agent", as long as he surrounds himself with good engineers during his recording sessions (and preferably the same one(s) for all the sessions) and keeps an eye on the post-production work, we'll end up with a good album. Yeah, I'm assuming the songs are solid. Wink It's just gonna be all about the follow up. :says a prayer:

AH, I cannot even begin to read through all of those! I have probably read at least some already. But I wonder how much of my preference for vinyl is really a preference for the production values it implies, and how much is my throwback hippie leanings, and how much is actual auditory quality? I'll just say that I love the newish trend of co-packaging LPs and CDs, or LPs and a download code. Smile It can only be a good thing. Now, to find a reliable source of needles for my hi-fi... Grin

mari Wrote:
I agree. I think that you have to live the music for a long time before it starts to become a part of you, like a body part. And then with certain types of music, like blues and jazz, you need to live a lot of life before you can really be comfortable and authentic playing the music. Life experience informs the performance and informs the songwriting. There are some great teenage songwriters out there... to use my usual example Wink Brian Wilson wrote "Surfer Girl" when he was 19, a gorgeous, gorgeous song. More complex than most people realize just by listening to it. But it's his later stuff that is really "him" -- his stuff from when he was in his late 20s and 30s, even when he was not well, is miles beyond "Surfer Girl". And even now, his melodies and harmonies are just incredible. His new stuff is just so densely emotional -- and so Brian, you could never mistake it for anyone else. (That Lucky Old Sun drops tomorrow!!)

So I feel like I need to define where I am on the continuum of "which Taylor" I like best... and that ties into the (months!) earlier discussion of live vs. recording. I love recordings... I can get a bit obsessed over finding out "what mic did they use, what guitar, what amp..." and I keep going back and forth on analog vs. digital. I think it's my perfectionist streak, the attempt to create the perfect sound (see: Brian Wilson) and get it down on tape for posterity is attractive to me. But then there's live performance, which serves an entirely different purpose. It's the oops-es and no do-overs aspects of live performance that are attractive to me, and why I only like watching people sing along to a DAT when they screw up (ahahahah). Recordings can be as canned as the tape reels, but live performances ought to be organic. So there's that.

Moving on... (and yeah, I'm feeling chatty tonight!) I think that because recordings and live performances serve two different purposes, there can be two different "Taylors" in that respect. The jams and tags and growlys and whatnot in the live performances, the raw sexiness and joyousness and all that. And tight jeans, I totally vote for tight jeans. Wink But in the recordings, I see no problem with going a teeny bit glossier, more polished, tighter. (Not just the jeans this time.) NOT, I must assert, as glossy as TH-the-album. NO. That was just wrong. I mean like UTR. There was a shoestring album that sounded as polished as it needed to. I listened to that album for the first time on headphones, in the dark, in my bed (which I will swear up and down is the ONLY way to listen to any album for the first time, unless it's dance pop). And the one thing that popped out at me was -- that's solid songwriting. And then, as I continued to listen, I also thought -- that's excellent recording. Good discipline. Good balance. It was an enjoyable listening experience. Now, those songs are totally different live, there's experimentation and dancing and whooing and stuff, and that is also awesome. But here's my big point: If the songwriting is solid, we really can have it all ways. We can have a nice commercial album that will sell and bring in new fans and (gasp!) maybe get radio play. And then we can have raw hot live shows with the same songs -- just kicked up a notch. I don't know what to do for the folks who want Branson-fried-Taylor... I guess they can wait til he's in his 60s and goes for a cheesed-out nostalgia tour? Grin

So that covered a lot of ground... or maybe I just used more words than I needed. Wink But I've been wanting to get that out on the internet for a while! Smile


Well I definitely vote AGAINST the Branson-fried Taylor. Haha And I agree, live style and album style don't have to match exactly. In fact they're not supposed to. That's why you go to a live concert, to see the real person you've been listening to. You expect a little more heart, soul and gut from the live performances!

Stangy Wrote:
Well I definitely vote AGAINST the Branson-fried Taylor. Haha And I agree, live style and album style don't have to match exactly. In fact they're not supposed to. That's why you go to a live concert, to see the real person you've been listening to. You expect a little more heart, soul and gut from the live performances!


It does seem a waste of money when the live performance sounds just like the record.

Margaux Wrote:

Stangy Wrote:
Well I definitely vote AGAINST the Branson-fried Taylor. Haha And I agree, live style and album style don't have to match exactly. In fact they're not supposed to. That's why you go to a live concert, to see the real person you've been listening to. You expect a little more heart, soul and gut from the live performances!


It does seem a waste of money when the live performance sounds just like the record.


I have heard so many people complain about shows where the artist "didn't sing the song like on the CD." OMG people, what about creativity, what about the opportunity to step outside the CD case, what about the performer possibly putting a gun to their head if they have to sing the same songs the same way every damn night! And then you have people spending huge amounts of money to see performers lip-synch or dance around on stage and not really even sing the songs. What is this all about?! It could just as easily be an animatronic Britney or Justin up there, no actual singer is necessary!

If I am going to spend my money, and hell, even if it were free, I would want a live, sweating, passionate, unpredictable performer. I think we know someone like that. Wink

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